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Pope Francis Expresses Strong Reservations AGAINST Medjugorje!

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Update 10/7/13 9am:  How is this for neat!  The Vatican just visited this blog!

Visit from the Vatican!

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The title says it all, perhaps this news is a week late, but I just picked up an interesting tidbit from the blog of Fr. Z.

Last Saturday 7 September during his morning meditation in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae, Pope Francis, speaking on the theme “there is no Christian without Jesus” criticized Christian “revelationists” and expressed his strong reservations about the supposed apparitions at Medjugorje.

The official site of the Holy See and the L’Osservatore Romano, however, purged his words of the reference to Medjugorje, confining itself to refer to them in these terms: “There is another group of Christians without Christ: those who look things that are kind of rare, a bit special, who chase after some private revelations,” whereas instead revelation was concluded with the New Testament. The Holy Father warned about the desire of such Christians to go “to the spectacle of revelation, to hear some new things”. But – and this is the exhortation that Pope directed to them – “Pick up the Gospel!”

Fr. Z goes on to say:

There isn’t an attribution here, a source, the name of the person who heard the Holy Father speak specifically about Medjugorje.

That said, if you are interested in Medjugorje in a positive way, I suggest that you get used to the idea that there may be an official pronouncement about it that you are not going to like. My spies used to tell me that the former Pope was not a supporter either.

I read in the news a few weeks ago that Pope Francis met with some of the Medjugorje Priests last week and now that this news has leaked out, it doesn’t sound favorable at all for the Medjugorje clan.

Read more of Fr. Z’s commentary, Here.

44 COMMENTS

  1. I had read on one blog that the meeting with Franciscans hasn’t happening yet and is scheduled for around the 10th, just before the 13th when the Holy Father does his consecration to our Lady of Fatima. We may hear something publicly on that date, and no one will be able to sanitize such a public homily.

    Where did you read that the meeting happened already. I’d be interested in seeing it. I even went looking in Croatian media for something last night when I made my own post, but came up empty.

    • Hey Diane,

      You are correct, the main meeting has not occurred yet. However I have heard about other meetings with people from Medg that have met either with the Holy Father or with the CDF leading up to this meeting.

      I have always felt that the Church will not be favorable in their decision of this event and it is my hope that this whole thing will be resolved shortly, before more people are led astray and encouraged in their constant pursuit for miraculous events and places of apparitions.

      It will take a lot of courage for the Holy Father to come out against this vision, if that is what he will be doing. I know many Priests, Religious, and laity that believe in Medjugorje and I know that some of those priests and religious believe their vocations came from their encounters over at the ‘apparition’ site. This would likely be a major blow to those who have put so much stock and belief into the apparition and I also believe that it would cause all those who refuse to listen to the Church to fall away in disobedience, similar to the disobedience of the Franciscans in that area that have refused to listen to the Church for 30+ years.

      I don’t know what will happen… I’ll just have to wait and see.

      God Bless,

      Michael

    • Five bucks says this was a rumor started by some quack who wanted to get more press for Medjugorje just before said meeting.

  2. The sooner this painful/humiliating chapter of Catholicism is closed the better. Medjegorje is nothing but new-age nonsense inspired by the socialism of the 80′s. The “all religion is equal in my eyes” is clear heresy. Any Catholic who NEEDS Medj to bolster their faith should indeed “pick up the gospels”. There are plenty of TRUE apparitions to listen to.

    • Qualis Rex,

      I totally agree. When I read that message of which you speak, I knew it wasn’t really the blessed Mother. I would also reference people to look at the video that was shot of Vicka during one of her ‘ecstasies’ in which the cameraman tested her to see if she was really in ecstasy, he jabbed his finger towards her eye and she lurched forward to miss it. After the vision was over, she approached the camera man to explain why she jumped and her explanation was that Our Lady nearly dropped Jesus who was in her arms and that she why Vicka lurched forward, she was going to catch Jesus was he fell to protect him. It was one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.. as if Our Blessed Mother would ever drop Jesus….

    • Medjugorje is the only reason I joined the Catholic Church 20 years ago and the Eucharist is now the centre of my life, and I love to go to Mass daily.I was Baptised, Confirmed and received First Holy Communion at the age of 37. I now lead Pilgrimages there. Nothing in the entire world will ever convince me that Our Lady is not appearing there, and there are millions who have received conversions through Medjugorje, including thousands of vocations to the Priesthood and Religious Life. It is rightly called “the Confessional of the World” because of the endless lines of people waiting to Confess, often in 12 or so Languages, on a daily basis. Don’t see that happening in too many Catholic Churches these days.To be in Medjugorje is to experience Heaven on earth, and I can’t wait to be back there again next May. God Bless, Jan from Australia.

      • Thank you Jan for commenting. One question. When/IF the Vatican comes out and finds Medjugorje to be false, will you in obedience to the Church stop all devotion to it, never visit it again, and drop all associations with it?

        • By the same toke Michael, if the commission finds favourably for Medjugorje, will you drop your smugness and get with the program our Lady has prescribed for saving souls through Medjugorje? Somehow I think you’ll still be sneering and fuming quietly over it. Hope I’m wrong.

          • Paul,

            IF that is the case.. I will accept the Churches decision. Let’s try and keep things civil here, there is no reason to be rude or hateful towards those who listen to the Church and the multitude of Bishops of Mostar who have found this to be not of supernatural order for the 30+ yrs this heresy has been promoted in the under currents of the faithful.

            Where is your charity?

      • I’m sorry you feel that way when so clearly the apparitions are false; the alleged apparition spoke against the Bishop. Contrast that with Our Lady’s words at the wedding feast in Cana; do whatever he tells you. Similarly, she counseled St. Bernadette to listen when she was told not to return to the grotto, never mind whether that was a just restriction or not. Obedience is the rule and the alleged visionaries who routinely ignore their bishop who asks them not to appear in public.

  3. Listen to all these people thinking they themselves have the Holy Spirit whispering in their ears that this is all a hoax and whatever else.

    It isn’t about “needing apparitions to bolster one’s faith”. It’s about IF and HOW God wishes to speak to the world. If God is actually speaking, I would have thought we should listen rather than say “Hey God, be quiet. I’m reading my Bible.” When Mary appeared at Fatima and Guadalupe, thankfully people didn’t say that. Thankfully, people got excited and allowed it to build their faith. Thankfully, they influenced many!

    Besides, these apparitions weren’t for the filial son who stayed at home. They were for the prodigal son. The message of modern day mystics, just as with the old testament prophets, is to save the lost soul. If you already believe and you’re going to Mass, reading your bible, etc, how about get out and spread the word of God as these mystics are advocating. Save some souls with your actions and prayers. Remember the goal.

    • Listen to you Paul!

      You come into my blog full of pride and arrogance and attempt to point at the fallacies of what people on here believe and yet you’re not willing to event come to terms with or admit that you really do not know if this vision is legit or not. I found your blog (which by the way you put in the wrong url when you posted the comment here), and on your blog you are a self professed Over-the-Top Medj believer who has gone to great lengths to justify why you believe the visions are legitimate. One of your major issues in your argumentation is that you believe that the local Bishop doesn’t have the authority to state that the visions are false, you believe that it lies solely with the Vatican and CDF, which is doesn’t. Granted, they will have their final say, but in all other cases of supernatural events, the Church trust the decisions and support of the local Bishops in whose diocese phenomena occur.

      Obedience Paul… this all goes back to obedience… and the visions stink to high heaven of disobedience.

      http://catholic-ecclesia-dei.blogspot.com/

      • Michael, listen to yourself. You speak to me of humility and civility, and add hypocrisy to your list of errors. Where is yours when it comes to pulling your head in and waiting for the Vatican. Where is your civility when it comes to speaking of Medjugorje visions as “stinking to high heaven.” Your own pride stinks so much that it irks me. It oozes from you.

        Plain old common sense, let alone charity and civility, says that you simply should not be filling the netwaves with your hatred and ill-speaking towards what may possibly become a shrine. You are silly to do that. If it turns out that the vatican approves of this apparition, you will look like the biblical fool at the wedding who took the front row seats and was asked to move to the back.

        Take a step backwards and look at yourself. Monk to be? I think you should stay away until you sort that out. I would not like to think my own pastor harbored a type of sacred hatred and ill-discipline while spouting lectures of charity to civility to me.

          • Oh ho…I think that line is mine. Get off the internet until you are able to be balanced, stop perpetuating slander, telling lies and misleading people. Your umbridge instead of humility about what you are doing is a sure sign you are on the wrong side. You are a menace.

      • Oh and Michael, you have misquoted and misrepresented me also with that tirade. You need to be very careful how you word things. First, I don’t recall ever describing myself as an over-the-top Medjugorje believer. I quietly believe, yes, but I speak out only because of people like you.

        And for the record, I am VERY prepared to drop it the instant the Vatican does. There are some aspects of Medjugorje that I also find confusing and which make me wonder. I am all about protecting the harvest in the meantime. You cannot argue with the good fruits, although I see you have seriously tried to.

        Now, of course the local bishop has initial authority, by default. But surely you don’t think that the Vatican is some silent partner that stays out of it and never “meddles”. This is where a LOT of the confusion has festered over the years. OF COURSE the Vatican has the final say and will monitor everything. Reports need to be written and submitted to the Vatican with any investigation by a local Bishop. And this is exactly what happened. And the Vatican thenceforth rather quickly disagreed with the report and actually went a step further (quite rare) and removed the dossier completely from his hands and into the hands of the Yugoslav Bishops Conference. This is all established fact that even the usual suspects have a hard time refuting. So, you tell me. Is it ME who has the problem accepting that the local bishop has/had authority. Or is it you that cannot let go of the Bishop and instead listen to the Vatican, which is where the decision now rests. Sure, the Vatican can still consult with the local bishop if it chooses and it has done since. But, there is not much, if any, decision-making power that I am aware of that still rests with the local bishop, unfortunately.

        The Vatican also seems to be preparing to split that diocese into two – leaving the bishop jurisdiction only over Mostar and having a new Bishop for Medjugorje. I haven’t heard any updates on that recently.

        You might not want to, but take a look at this latest article. To me and the rest of the world, the Pope is not showing much sign of wanting to kill off Medjugorje. Quite the opposite. You are simply reading the wrong stuff Michael.

        http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/10079/rome-singled-out-medjugorje-for-honor/

        • Tirade? No. Fact and truth. Anyone that goes to your website and sees your writings will know that you are an over-the-top Medj. believer and after doing a short internet search of you, I found blog upon blog that you serial harassed that were anti-medjugorje. You took the opportunity on your blog to skin alive one of the anti-medjugorje people and you wrote nasty and disgusting things about her. So please.. leave your false civility at the door, we all know who you truly are.

          • Let other people be the judge of my true motives, which are clearly presented on my blog, if they care or so choose.

            People, I think we are seeing the true side of this so-called Heart for God. I’m glad I had the opportunity to expose your real heart. Proud, unwilling to listen to reason, a mess of lies coming out of his mouth. Michael, God simply isn’t going to be happy with your heart if you IN ANY WAY damage His harvest at Medjugorje or any other site where you feel you know better than the Vatican. Think about that long and hard, though somehow I know you won’t. Your camp is certainly a stubborn one – under the influence of the most stubborn of all beings.

  4. I wonder if Michael has ever been to Medjugorje; I some how doubt it. I too was highly sceptical when i first visited in 1997 and have since returned nine times. When I visit I am not looking for visions, spinning suns, etc, etc However what I seek is spiritual enrichment and this is what I find (and many, many others do too). I won’t list all the blessings I have received but mention but three: a much enhanced appreciation of the Mass, a love for the rosary and an ability to fast. Before I went to Medjugorje the rosary and fasting were complete no-nos for me. If this is the work of the devil then he has clearly lost the plot!
    What did Jesus say about judging a tree by its fruit. Before attempting to inflict further damage on the tree it might be a good idea to check-out the fruit for yourself!

    • Edward,

      I have not been to Medjugorje, nor would I go over there even if someone paid my ticket. I will not go because the local Bishop has asked that people not go on pilgrimage there because according to him and every Bishop since these things began have stated time and time again that nothing supernatural is occurring. I am happy that you found a renewed love for the rosary and for fasting, but those things do not prove or validate the messages or what is supposed to be happening over there. The bad fruits outweigh the good fruits that have happened. Jesus clearly states in the bible, where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am also. That being said, where a large number of people are gathered and praying, I would expect to have good things happening. I just hope, that when/if the Vatican comes out against Medjugorje, you will not lose faith in the Church or God due to your overwhelming support of a vision that has bought more scandal, division, and disobedience to the Catholic world, than it has good.

      • Michael, you have simply be conned by a cadre of conspiracy theorists. You have been doing all the wrong reading. Bad fruits outweigh the good fruits? A monk who is prepared to state obvious falsehoods and half-truths all over the internet? Disobedience to the local Bishop? Haven’t we covered that a thousand times in the last 30 years? The bishop opposed the apparitions but no-one in the Vatican agreed. Letters have been written and exchanged clarifying these matters. It’s been covered a thousand times. Where have you been?? You are just another newbie with a blog that we, who fight for balance and patient waiting on the Vatican, have to bring up to speed, before you wreak havoc and carnage all over the internet and subtract from God’s harvest there. For even if God did not instigate something, he can still reap where he does not sow.

        Michael, begin here: Read about the wisdom of Gamaliel. And then revise your blog. Seriously.

        • The Vatican did agree with the Bishops Paul. Read the official document released by the CDF. They declared that the apparitions are false and not of supernatural order.

        • Second off, I am no longer a Monk, I left the religious life 2 yrs ago (any rude snarky comment on that subject will be deleted). I keep the url because it is in the search engines and my site is ranked with specific SEO. Thirdly, I have been blogging for 5 yrs, so I am most certainly not a newbie blogger. I have a Bachelors degree in Religious Studies and I also attended the Seminary for a year. I am well read and well educated. I do extensive research on both the pro’s and cons of every blog that I write. The cons against medjugorje are 10000 times more apparent than any pro’s.

          • Michael, I’m not saying you’re not educated in general, just on Medjugorje. And you keep making sweeping statements that leave nothing to be discussed, when there is actually ample that goes directly against what you believe. If you think the cons far outweight the pros on Medjugorje, then you are simply unversed and unread on Medjugorje. You have been very selective in your reading – let me guess – Donal Foley, E Michael Jones, et al. Those people have been picking for over 30 years and have a handful of things to say against Medjugorje, against thousands of miracles, millions of conversions, thousands of new vocations. We can forgive the human aspects of visionaries and monks just as Christ forgave Peter and his other weak disciples, but the bottom line is whether the fruits AS A WHOLE are of God. And if you look at the stats, you could not have dreamed for better fruits for Christ’s bride the Catholic Church.

      • For what it matters,I have been to both Lourdes and the Holy Land but have never heard of Our lady of America! However I do not propose to continue this discussion as there is little point when minds are closed and have a taint of vitriol too.. Before prognosticating.on Balkan bishops some research into Balkan history and politics would not go amiss (yes, sadly the local church is not immune from politics!). If you are afraid to venture to Medjugorje may be you would like to visit the nearby regional capital of Mostar where the bishop is based – you won’t need directions to find him, just look out for the grandest palace in town! Oh yes, have no fear about me losing my faith, I am far to well grounded for that and I have been blessed with discernment too. Farewell and God Bless. .

        • “If you are afraid to venture to Medjugorje may be you would like to visit the nearby regional capital of Mostar where the bishop is based – you won’t need directions to find him, just look out for the grandest palace in town!” — what a tragedy that this is the way you view the Bishop of the Diocese. The same could be said about Christ.. if you want you find Christ.. go searching within the grandest of Churches to find his true presence… The palace doesn’t make the King, the King makes the palace. We had a gorgeous monastery that I lived in and our Mother House was the former Mansion of the inventor of Jello. That last statement says all too much about what your view on the good Bishop is.. your lack of respect for his office and for him. While your pointing out the splinter in the eye of the Bishop of Mostar.. how about hunting down the seers and ask them why they all OWN hotel chains, why their families are millionaires and why they have profited so richly from the visions… and lastly.. go ask the ‘visionary’ who now lives in American and is married to a supermodel why he is living in a mansion and married to a beauty queen.

          • You really do need to read about the History of the region as Edward suggests. The history is SO unique that it deserves your immediate attention. It’s an even more complicated version of China, where bishops are often simply puppets of the Communist party. I’m not making any accusations here, simply observing history. It began when I also wondered how on earth there could be such animosity between Franciscans and seculars in this region. Google “The truth about the Hezegovinian Affair” for a starter. God bless our shepherds and help them. They need our prayers big time.

            And beware. Your false words against the visionaries have now spread to every country in the world via the world wide web. These are even worse accusations than I have read in the past from the usual suspects. You should check your facts. Again, these issues have been covered a thousand times in 30+ years.

  5. Let’s learn from a Doctor of the Church regarding supernatural good etc.: “Three principal evils, it seems to me, may came to the soul when it sets its rejoicing on supernatural good. The first is that it may deceive and be deceived. The second is that it may fall away from the faith. The third is that it may indulge in vainglory or some other such vanity” St. John of the Cross from Ascend of Mount Carmel pg. 149. I have also thought that this is happening in today’s euphoria on following signs and wonders even if they are true. Faith is to believe in God without seen.

    • Amen to that Mirella! Great point from a wonderful Doctor of the Church. I love St. John of the Cross, we have much to learn from him and the other great saints of the Church. Thanks for pointing that out, it’s refreshing to hear.

      • Yes, amen to those points when read in context and applied appropriately. The previous chapter speaks about the “fifth kind of good wherein the will may rejoice, which is the supernatural”.

        The chapter ends with “A man, then, should rejoice, not when he has such graces and makes use of them, but when he reaps from them the second spiritual fruit, namely that of serving God in them with true charity, for herein is the fruit of eternal life. For this cause Our Saviour reproved the disciples who were rejoicing because they cast out devils, saying: ‘Desire not to rejoice in this, that devils are subject to you, but rather because your names are written in the book of life.’635 This, according to good theology, is as much as to say: Rejoice if your names are written in the book of life. By this it is understood that a man should not rejoice save when he is walking in the way of life, which he may do by performing good works in charity; for where is the profit and what is the worth in the sight of God of aught that is not love of God? And this love is not perfect if it be not strong and discreet in purging the will of joy in all things, and if it be not set upon doing the will of God alone. And in this manner the will is united with God through these good things which are supernatural. ”

        Then begins the new chapter, which Mirella quotes, which speaks about rejoicing “inappropriately” as described above in the previous chapter.

        So, dear Michael and Mirella, St John is teaching the correct way to react to supernatural occurrences. YES, REJOICE, but make sure it’s with the right attitude and goals in mind and that your rejoicing does not lead to pride and effectively AWAY from God. Make sure it leads you CLOSER to God in humility.

  6. Mary our Mother Queen of Heaven does not need ten thousand words or days to inscribe the message in our hearts. In Guadalupe, Lourdes and Fatima, there were only a few apparitions of her and with that was sufficient for the people to change. In Guadalupe, especially, people did not go to an apparition of Mary to St. Juan Diego to witness it or anything like that to believe. The conversions happened afterwards and not during. The case with Medjugorje is that the messages are continually coming here and there and everywhere so we can’t compare Medjugorje with Guadalupe or Fatima or Lourdes because they are totally different. One of the main difference is that in the approved apparitions the seers rather than becoming popular and receive money from pilgrims they stayed away from publicity and in the case of Fatima the children and parents were adamant to receive any money from pilgrims even though they were in need of it. Both St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross have warned through their works about the danger of visions, aparitions and locutions and one only gains and advances spiritually when reading about them. Everyone should be reading both saints’ works if interested in visions and apparitions. I recommend them.

  7. Mirella, would you dare to say that to Mary’s face or say to God “I think you’ve got it wrong because you didn’t do it that way at the other apparitions”. Who are we to try to comprehend, let alone determine, the correct way God speaks to the world?

    You are forgetting, or perhaps don’t care to know, that Medjugorje is about converting the entire world. Guadalupe, Lourdes and Fatima did not make the whole world change. Mary has stated through the visionaries several times that she is here so long because there is much to do and people aren’t listening (not helped by Michael or yourself I might add). She wants to save as many as possible. She has repeated that this is a time of grace that we neglect at our peril.

    So, if this apparition is genuine, then that is what God’s plan is through it. Mary has obtained God’s permission to try to convert as many people as possible before certain things must inevitably happen. Look around you. How many of your neighbours are converted? How many people on your bus each morning are converted? That’s how much more work Mary still needs to do.

    Wisdom of Gamaliel! Don’t prevent possible good! Don’t stand in God’s way. That can only be trouble for you.

  8. Michael, I confess to having been slightly strong with my words here and there and I apologise. It is borne of frustration because I see the damage the web can do. In this case, the stakes are high – SOULS. I just think we shouldn’t mess with that. We should just wait and pray. That is really all I’m advocating. I want to know the truth about Medj as much as the next person and I’m happy to drop it. It’s not a biggie for me and it shouldn’t be for any person of faith. It’s for those who do not yet believe. And that’s whom I feel driven to protect.

  9. Paul, we do not try to correct the ways God speaks to his people in any way but the Church is here to check everything to see if God speaks through those things. I sometimes compare MEdjugorje with other approved apparitions because if it is the same person appearing in both MEdjugorje and another approved apparition there are similirities more than there could be differences. The same person sent by the Holy Spirit would not contradict herself. You don’t think that the commission investigating Medjugorje is not also checking for traces of similarities and differences with past apparitions and check them with doctrine? In most of the other apparitions approved there was messages for the world too. However, the messages have been different and unlike Medjugorje messages they do not change what we have learned from the Gospels and from the CCC. We do not believe in a thousand year of Christ reigning in the world after his first coming. We don’t believe in milleniarism. And for me the messages and secrets and warnings coming out of Medjugorje seemed to be a sort of milleniarism.

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